Ya-Rabbi in Ayah (25:30)

Salaamun Alaykum.

This is a counter argument for the discussion about Allahumma ≠ Ya Allah.

First part:

Ishtiaq Hossain Miraj provided on my last post on “Allah is not a name = there is no Ya Allah” a few Ayat as counter examples that the vocative Ya is not applicable to Allah, and I will now give the evidence to how Ya is used and add Ishtiaq Hossain Miraj’s counter examples for Allah to it:

1) Call someone far away or at a distance:

(4:1) يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ

Counter example for Allah:

(2:186) "وَإِذَا سَأَلَكَ عِبَادِي عَنِّي فَإِنِّي قَرِيبٌ..."
“And when My servants ask you concerning Me—indeed I am near...

2) Call one of many, who may be a group among other groups:

(2:104) يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا

Counter example for Allah:

(112:1) "قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ" — Say: He is Allah, the One.

3) Get attention of inattentive:

(82:6) يَا أَيُّهَا الْإِنسَانُ

(109:1) يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ

Counter example for Allah:

(2:74) وَمَا ٱللَّهُ بِغَـٰفِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ - And Allah is never unaware of what you toil /do.

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So, from here it is established that the vocative Ya is neither appropriate nor applicable to address Allah. Which is further supported by the fact that Allah is not a name but a noun, so Ya+Allah is not a valid construction, neither conceptually nor grammatically from the standards of the Quran.

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Second part:

The context of Ayah (25:30) appears as if someone is addressing Allah using Ya-Rabbi , which is not valid neither as Ya-Allah, nor Ya-Rabbi.

وَقَالَ ٱلرَّسُولُ يَـٰرَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِى ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ هَـٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانَ مَهْجُورًۭا

(25:30)

in order to avoid discussions that lead to expose confidential information, we can use Ayah (36:14) to first establish a story that there is an “unspecified” group where two are Mursaleen to another third person.

إِذْ أَرْسَلْنَآ إِلَيْهِمُ ٱثْنَيْنِ فَكَذَّبُوهُمَا فَعَزَّزْنَا بِثَالِثٍۢ فَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّآ إِلَيْكُم مُّرْسَلُونَ

(36:14)

And we can use three Ayat from Sura Yusuf to establish the stance: a human can be Rabb to his messenger, and a Human can have more than one Rabb depending on what his obligations imply.

1)

وَقَالَ لِلَّذِى ظَنَّ أَنَّهُۥ نَاجٍۢ مِّنْهُمَا ٱذْكُرْنِى عِندَ رَبِّكَ فَأَنسَىٰهُ ٱلشَّيْطَـٰنُ ذِكْرَ رَبِّهِۦ فَلَبِثَ فِى ٱلسِّجْنِ بِضْعَ سِنِينَ

(12:42)

Yussuf is here the Rabb of the messenger to the king, and sends him with a mission to king, who is then the Rabb to send this guy later to Yussuf:

2)

وَقَالَ ٱلَّذِى نَجَا مِنْهُمَا وَٱدَّكَرَ بَعْدَ أُمَّةٍ أَنَا۠ أُنَبِّئُكُم بِتَأْوِيلِهِۦ فَأَرْسِلُونِ

(12:45)

So after a long time has passed, he remembered his mission, and asked the king to send him on a mission, so that he can bring the interpretation of the events going on.

3)

وَقَالَ ٱلْمَلِكُ ٱئْتُونِى بِهِۦ ۖ فَلَمَّا جَآءَهُ ٱلرَّسُولُ قَالَ ٱرْجِعْ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكَ فَسْـَٔلْهُ مَا بَالُ ٱلنِّسْوَةِ ٱلَّـٰتِى قَطَّعْنَ أَيْدِيَهُنَّ ۚ إِنَّ رَبِّى بِكَيْدِهِنَّ عَلِيمٌۭ

(12:50)

So here the Quran is implying that the King is referring the messengers other Rabb when he says “being him (your other Rabb) to me!”; and when this Rasul to the king did as commanded, the other Rabb (Yussuf) said: Return back to your other Rabb (the king).

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So from this perspective it is clear that in Ayah (36:14):

إِذْ أَرْسَلْنَآ إِلَيْهِمُ ٱثْنَيْنِ فَكَذَّبُوهُمَا فَعَزَّزْنَا بِثَالِثٍۢ فَقَالُوٓا۟ إِنَّآ إِلَيْكُم مُّرْسَلُونَ

The two guys who are already send as agents (or messengers?) by the Malaikah, addressing the third to be their Rabb (yeah, I know it’s plural) and they are for/from him Mursaleen to the people they are (also) addressing.

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Conclusion:

So from this standpoint the Ayah (25:30)

وَقَالَ ٱلرَّسُولُ يَـٰرَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِى ٱتَّخَذُوا۟ هَـٰذَا ٱلْقُرْءَانَ مَهْجُورًۭا

is not providing proof to address Allah as Ya-Rabbi, because as shown in the first part, the vocative Ya is not applicable to address Allah , and the second part showed that if someone is too limited in understanding that Rabb is not limited to Allah exclusively, but it can be used to address humans, it is clear that to use Ayah (25:30) as an counter example to why one is allowed to use the vocative Ya to address Allah, is just ignorance.

So this fake counter example to allow Allahumma to mean “Ya Allah” is refuted.

Edit: can someone please provide specific evidence that they in (36:14) are not only addressing the people they are sending to, but the third is also their Rabb. So that (36:14) is relating this notion more clearly? Maybe it has to do with the verb فَعَزَّزْنَا , which I couldn’t pinpoint to relate to the argument yet.

Salaamun Alaykum.