Salaam MQ Community
Any thoughts on the below will be very much appreciated.
In Surah 68 we come across 2 stories that no traditionalists so far have been able to provide a comprehensive understanding of. The 2 stories are The Companions of The Garden (verses 17-33) and The Companion of The Fish (verses 48-50). These verses assumes the reader is familiar with the stories but I'd like to first focus on what has been erroneously translated as "Companion of the Fish". The traditionalist believes that this is referring to a biblical character by the name of Jonah however we'll demonstrate that this is not the case in due course. Ask yourself the following question;
Who in the Quran called out in distress and also who if it had not been for The Lord would have been exposed and blamed/accused of treachery?
Now you may say well this could be any number of Prophets/Messengers but let's first start with who has been mention along with the mention of Fish (Haa-Waa-Ta).
There are 4 other instance of this root Haa-Waw-Ta (Fish) in verses:
7:163 = 7:160 mentions Musa so it's not a stretch to associate that verse 163 has something to do with him
18:61 = 18:60 mentions Musa so it's not a stretch to associate that verse 61 has something to do with him
18:63 = 18:60 mentions Musa so it's not a stretch to associate that verse 63 has something to do with him
37:142 = 37:139 mentions Yunusa which is commonly translated as Jonah however I hypothesise this is an alias for Musa
Yunusa is mentioned in 3 other places:
4:163 - Notice how Yunusa is mentioned just prior to Harun and that this list of great Prophets is missing Musa
6:86 - Again a list of those preferred over the worlds missing Musa
10:98 - Sounds very familiar to the people of Musa (The Israelites) especially when you consider the prior 20 odd verses are speaking about Musa and the Israelites.
We can test this hypothesis and compare segments from 2 places Surah 28 and 37, which when you understand these verses with the correct understanding it becomes clear that they are talking about the same story/event. I wont provide a translation just yet, I wonder if others also come to the same conclusion as me.
28:14-17 is relating to 37:139-143
28:18-21 is relating to 37:144-146
28:22 is relating to 37:147-148
28:23-24 is relating to 37:149-159
68:17-33 is relating to 37:160-182
Now back to the Companions of The Garden which is spoken of in 68:17-33 and 37:160-182... this is the story of the people of Madyan who Musa disputed with and off the back of that dispute they were ruined and Musa was offered a role to work for the Head of Madyan. It's interesting how Surah 68 makes a reference to Surah 37 which further explains what/who The Companions of The Garden/Fish are.
There is no Jonah, he actually represents the Sea God Dagon from Phoenician/Greek/Sumerian mythology. Another great effort from our scholars of the past to bring in pagan mythology into Islam.
Salaam
DV
Imran arif
Interesting, however, just an observation: 6-86 where musa is missing
Anyway, i feel that Musa and Yousus story are linked; but Younus is discripter of Musa, I am interested in knowing how you come up with validating this hypothesis
thanks
Darth Veda
I am currently working on a Project to understand the true Chronology of the Quran as I believe revelation was Surah by Surah and not Sporadic verses which was later compiled etc. Surah 68 is supposed to be the second Surah revealed so I started to test this Hypothesis and realised that this cannot be true. During that process I was looking at root words and phrases that have been used and noticed that Haa-Waw-Taa only occurs with Musa which got me curious. I then noticed that this seemed to be part of a greater story that was being told. About how Musa was embroiled in controversy (Which is what Haa-Waw-Taa means) and that his intentions was exposed (left on the shores exposed) and then realised the journey of Yunusa was actually the journey of Musa to Madyan.
Musa is actually from the Egyptian Priesthood and is highly educated, ancient priests were statesman, philosophers, legislators, businessmen, scientists and scholars all in one. Musa did not punch someone and kill them he was assigned a court case to decide the fate of two men. He ends up convicting the wrong man because of political allegiances which exposes his treachery to Firauns court. The moral dilemma Musa finds himself in is that his decision sentenced an innocent man to death. If you read verse 28:15 this is in a court setting fawakazahu doesn't mean punched him, it would be the equivalent of a Judge striking a Gavel when a case has been concluded. Furthermore the above is vindicated by the use of the word faqada which doesn't mean killed either, when you look at the General Root Meaning below one cannot ignore that this is something that is relating to Judicial matters.
I'm just giving you a summary of a lengthy process I went through. I could go on further and explain what happens with Musa when he goes to Madyan but the references I provided above should suffice. Considering Musa's qualifications he isn't offered a job to tend literal sheep he is given a very prominent role regarding judicial and legislative matters. In Sha Allah my project will be available very soon for people to view so you'll receive a more detailed explanation then.
Salaam
DV
Uzair Sserunkuma
We learnt about the companions of the garden. One hard a garden and another two gardens.
Darth Veda
عطاء اَلحیّ احمد | Attaulhai Ahmed
Salaamun Alaykum.
May I draw your attention to 2 posts from the old Account of Sister Muslim Candor?
Because a certain opportunity for a discussion maybe arise from your standpoint, to discuss a certain issue.
In these two posts it is established that Yunus is not Dhun Nun.
But in the second Dhun Nun related to be Musa.
The following is now the problem.
If the three standpoints:
Musa=Yunus (Bro DV)
Musa=Dhun Nun (Sis MC)
Yunus = Not Dhun Nun (Dr. HA)
are all true, then this would result
in a contradiction. It would be interesting to see if someone can work out a comparison, to know whether or not Musa is actually Yunus or Dhun Nun, or might he be even another prophet? I mean Yunus is the prophet who went through a phase of Al-Ajila, before he reached the Al-Alkhira (see the why no mangoes segment).
So it is therefore the question if Musa did not wanted the Bani Israel to rush, but Yunus in his early phase took the rushed way, how is then Yunus related to be a Rasul? Since Musa is mentioned as a Rasul.
The first post of Sis. Muslim Candor is followed by some interesting comments by Dr. Hany. I mean, he answers like 4 times and clarifies certain of her questions regarding some difficulties in the same comment-section, and it is interesting to see, how he is basically the professor, leading the students to the correct hints.
The second post then works out the whole thing even more professional.
1) https://www.marvelousquran.org/community/topics/35557/posts/100765-the-treasure-of-nun
2) https://www.marvelousquran.org/community/topics/35557/posts/115867-who-is-dhun-nun
I hope you will have some fun reading her posts to understand the issue! 😊
Salaamun Alaykum.
Darth Veda
Salaam
DV
Please read this ayah carefully:
إِنَّاۤ أَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ إِلَیۡكَ كَمَاۤ أَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ إِلَىٰ نُوحࣲ وَٱلنَّبِیِّـۧنَ مِنۢ بَعۡدِهِۦۚ وَأَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ إِلَىٰۤ إِبۡرَ ٰهِیمَ وَإِسۡمَـٰعِیلَ وَإِسۡحَـٰقَ وَیَعۡقُوبَ وَٱلۡأَسۡبَاطِ وَعِیسَىٰ وَأَیُّوبَ وَیُونُسَ وَهَـٰرُونَ وَسُلَیۡمَـٰنَۚ وَءَاتَیۡنَا دَاوُۥدَ زَبُورࣰا
[An-Nisâ': 163]
Who is missing in the list of the messengers above? Make a list, and investigate each candidate one by one. Musa is not the only missing name!
Darth Veda
I'll be honest with you and say I don't fully understand the concept of markings... I've emptied my cup and then I just read the words and try to identify the meaning of these words Pan-Textually (Sam Gerrans style) and then I apply Abrahamic Locution (Dr Hany Style) and then read the verses in context and then allow Allah to inspire the correct understanding of the Verses and Surahs. I'm not afraid of where an objective secular reading of the Quran takes me and thus I find that it allows for a more creative understanding of Surahs. When you have shackles on you really are limited with how mobile you can be with understanding.
To understand Markings I would need someone to explain in detail what/how/why etc.
Salaam
DV